Marvel REALLY pressing the point.

[Gilgabob]

There is another aspect in marketing that I've seen an increase in and that's the variants and their ilk.

Marvel recently announced that all the Ultimate comics will ship in polybags to avoid "spoilers" and certain issues will contain a Stan Lee signature hidden by the bag. Both Ultimate Comics Spider-Man #160 and Fantastic Four #588 will be shipped with certain copies signed by the creators.

Firstly, since when has Marvel worried about spoiling anything. Please.

Secondly, with a marketing strategy that seems to be focusing on the collector and not the reader are we about to see the return of gatefold, diecut, embossed covers? The early 90's was a long time ago and younger readers may not really know about the whole speculator debacle from that era in comic books. I wonder if Marvel may be leading the charge back into this type of publishing again.

Just sayin'

[BobBretall]

Marvel recently announced that all the Ultimate comics will ship in polybags to avoid "spoilers"

I find it ironic that the very same issue that ship in polybags (like the Fantastic Four death issue & Ultimate Fallout #4) to avoid spoilers had the spoiler blabbed all over the web and in USA Today (BY MARVEL, not by people uncovering the info & "leaking" a story) the day before the poly-bagged issues were even available for sale.....

But, doesn't affect me as I dropped all the Ultimate comics.

[stardog]

Trying to get more money out of an increasingly smaller group of people doesn't seem like a bright idea to me, but it's typical of a dying industry. Make the bottom line look as good as possible and save our jobs, basically. I really do wonder sometimes if any of these people at Marvel and DC would have jobs if these properties weren't so lucrative elsewhere.

[Gilgabob]

I've recently noticed another disturbing trend by Marvel.

They take existing mainstream titles, make a major change to that book, then restart that mainstream title with a new #1.

Examples:

Daredevil, Man Without Fear became Black Panther, Man Without Fear while continuing the original numbering. Then, a few months later, we have Daredevil #1.

Captain America became Captain America and Bucky while they simultaneously released Captain America #1.

Now, FF will continue but will feature "the kids" and Fantastic Four will re-start up again.

In all these cases, a title I was buying completely morphed into a different title altogether. The Cap title changed to a lesser degree but the other two are completely different.

In the Daredevil case I had continued to pre-order the book until a few issues into the change I realized, "hey, daredevil is never coming back to this book and now I'm reading a Black Panther book I never intended to read". The Cap change I sniffed out and dropped it. I haven't decided if I will get the new Fantastic Four book but I am definitely dropping FF.

I guess the shenanigans I feel Marvel has been pulling of late are starting to really pile up. I am now down to just a few of there lesser $2.99 books.

Their marketing strategy seems to be that if they cannot attract new readers they will try to squeeze a few more sheckles out of their existing readership. In my case it's not working. What used to be a flow of Marvel pulls to is now down to just a trickle.

Marvel features:

A higher average price
Frequent double shipping
Questionable "bait and switch" numbering tactics
Frequent spoilers leaked to the media before their books come out
Return of Polybags!

And there are other things that are far more subjective that bother me.

I was raised a Marvelite but I am sadly finding my favorite publisher slowly, tortuously driving me away.

[BobBretall]

Captain America became Captain America and Bucky while they simultaneously released Captain America #1.

The Cap change I sniffed out and dropped it.

What you say is true, but OMG, the Cap & Bucky book w/ Chris Samnee art is fabulous! I'm loving it more than the regular Cap book by far.

[spid]

I've recently noticed another disturbing trend by Marvel.

They take existing mainstream titles, make a major change to that book, then restart that mainstream title with a new #1.

This is a long standing tradition of comics. Batman launched in an existing Detective Comics as well as a slew of other heroes got their start in other books before getting their own number 1. In this age it is not like you do not have months of notice before a title changes.

[abysslord]

I've recently noticed another disturbing trend by Marvel.

They take existing mainstream titles, make a major change to that book, then restart that mainstream title with a new #1.

This is a long standing tradition of comics. Batman launched in an existing Detective Comics as well as a slew of other heroes got their start in other books before getting their own number 1. In this age it is not like you do not have months of notice before a title changes.

That's different than what he's talking about though. Marvel is taking a title with a single character's name on it, then switching the main character but keeping the numbering/name and relaunching that old character into a new title.

That's different than a title with a vague name like Detective Comics, Tales of Suspense, Action Comics, Journey Into Mystery, etc. having a character spawn out into their own title.

[spid]

For me the practice is the same so I do not see the difference between doing this and the name of the book going from Tales Of Suspense to Captain America.

[Gilgabob]

I forgot the ridiculous .1 numbering. I'm not a fan of that either.

[stardog]

I forgot the ridiculous .1 numbering. I'm not a fan of that either.

Agreed although at least those have been easy to avoid. My big problem is the the double shipping. I've already dropped titles because of that, and I recently dumped Avengers Academy, X-23, X-Men, and Wolverine because of it. 3 titles I enjoy, but not enough to read twice a month. I read a letter in, I think, Avengers Academy where the writer questioned the double shipping (making following the series expensive). The response was something to the effect that it was necessary to keep lower selling books like Avengers Academy going. Even if I do accept that, what's the deal with Wolverine and X-Men? They sell pretty well and they're 3.99.

[BobBretall]

I read a letter in, I think, Avengers Academy where the writer questioned the double shipping (making following the series expensive). The response was something to the effect that it was necessary to keep lower selling books like Avengers Academy going. Even if I do accept that, what's the deal with Wolverine and X-Men? They sell pretty well and they're 3.99.

Just a guess, but it's probably because Marvel likes making money and doubling up on those $3.99 books with an entrenched readership is likely to garner more short term profits even if a few people drop the book because of it.

Avengers Academy is one of the few double-shipped books that I'm sticking with, but I really enjoy that series.

[Gilgabob]

I read a letter in, I think, Avengers Academy where the writer questioned the double shipping (making following the series expensive). The response was something to the effect that it was necessary to keep lower selling books like Avengers Academy going. Even if I do accept that, what's the deal with Wolverine and X-Men? They sell pretty well and they're 3.99.

Just a guess, but it's probably because Marvel likes making money and doubling up on those $3.99 books with an entrenched readership is likely to garner more short term profits even if a few people drop the book because of it.

Avengers Academy is one of the few double-shipped books that I'm sticking with, but I really enjoy that series.

I agree that they are taking advantage of their loyal audience for a short term gain but I believe this is a foolish strategy in the long run. I noticed your Marvel pull list is down another 7 this month and only is 22 total. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think some of the shenanigans I've talked about here have factored in your decisions as well.

Time will tell if this strategy hurts their market share in the future. I know it's been a factor to this once loyal Marverlite.

[boshuda]

I noticed in the preview solicits that Wolverine & The X-Men #1 is $4.99.

yes, it is 48 pages, but surely any 'on the fence' potential buyers will be completely put off.

I think Marvel is really pushing away some readers at the moment.

I feel sorry for X-Men fans in november with Uncanny, New Mutants, Wolverine, X-Men, X-Men Legacy & X-23 all double shipping.

With the completion of Schism and what looks to be a soft reboot of Marvel's Merry Mutants I was seriously considering jumping back on the X-Men bandwagon. But I already let Wolverine & The X-Men #1 pass by due to the price point (although a quick e-mail to DCBS, or an early morning visit on it's release Wednesday to a LCBS would take care of that). So I decided to add up the cost of the books if I added them to my monthly order. It looks like there are 8 'core' books being solicited between the two x-teams. I already collect two of those (X-Factor and X-Force) so I would only need to add six. With the DCBS discount I figured that should come to about 11 bucks (2.99 * 6, - %40 = $10.74). Except that they're double shipping a few of the titles and 3 of the titles are 3.99 -- two of the those three are double-shipping. So it's more like 19 bucks ($18.71) for the first month.

According to the two solicit posters, (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=34325 and http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=34298), a few of the books start out double-shipping. If the second shipping book is the first book on those lists I didn't price the first book shipping for the month.

And that's not even counting the other x-titles (Astonishing, Wolverine, X-23, etc). Ugh. The takeaway is that instead of adding a few X-titles I'm going to use this opportunity to cancel the $3.99 X-Force, and take a wait-and-see on X-Factor. At this point I think I'm able to overlook the continuity stuff on X-Factor mainly because of the fond memories I have of the fantastic Peter David/Larry Stroman X-Factor run of the nineties. Not to say the current story isn't pretty good, but the interruptions to the story, the lack of knowledge of the Mutant-verse in general, and the Marvel marketing shenanigans would cause me to drop this book too, if they weren't cancelled out by the nostalgia.

I'm enjoying the Uncanny X-Men book. It's my favorite book of the Fear Itself stuff -- and the notion of Colossus with the additional power of Cyttorak? That's so cool! I really enjoyed Whedon's Astonishing run, and I still read some reprints of the Cockrum/Byrne runs on X-Men. I would love to get back into the X-Men books, they were my favorite line of books as a kid. But I don't want to just collect a few of the titles because it always feels that they cross over constantly (true or not, that's my perception) or at the very least you'll get a new character with a bunch of baggage moved from one book to another. Without reading all of the books I fear I'll lose important details and not fully enjoy the books I am getting. That's happening to some extent with X-Force, particularly right now while they're doing the AoA stuff - I never read the original, so all the references are lost on me. It's happening to a lesser degree with X-Factor.

So, not a terribly constructive post despite it's length but sometimes it helps to vent - especially when you're on the fence about a decision. While writing this post I decided to not collect the X-Titles. See, Marvel, this is the long-term effect of your short-term gains thinking

[mikemclarty]

For all the reasons discussed on this message thread, as well as the very public and dishonorable behavior of Marvel's Management team, I'm very close to dropping everything Marvel.

Marvel's always been my publisher of choice, but it seems the arrival of the $3.99 price point ushered in a bevy of marketing tactics that leave me feeling very uncomfortable.

I think I may have reviewed my last Marvel book, too. For whatever *that's* worth.

[Paul Nolan]

For all the reasons discussed on this message thread, as well as the very public and dishonorable behavior of Marvel's Management team, I'm very close to dropping everything Marvel....

you mean like this Twitter exchange the other day....

Tom Brevoort -
In a time of multiple new #1s, only one is certain to be groundbreaking: ALL-NEW ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #1, on sale Wednesday.

Graeme McMillan -
@TomBrevoort Didn't DC already do "replacing white Steve Ditko character with Latino new character" in 2006's Blue Beetle #1?

Tom Brevoort -
@graemem No, that was replacing a character that few cared about with a character that few cared about.

Mark Waid -
@TomBrevoort @graemem Ouch! Until Morales shows up on live-action TV, in cartoons and on toy shelves, I--with respect--cry foul.

Tom Brevoort -
@MarkWaid @graemem Well, you'll see at least one of those before the year is out.